‘Experience trumps age’, says former diplomat, Martin Indyk, in a blunt assessment of Trump’s legacy and the road ahead for Joe Biden. ‘You’d have to go back to LBJ to find a President who has more experience with the political system and how to operate it’. In this wide-ranging conversation, Indyk talks to the Menzies Australia Institute’s Martin Thomas on the eve of Biden’s inauguration.

Martin S. Indyk was raised in Australia and did a doctorate in international relations at the Australian National University. A specialist on the Middle East, he moved to the US in the 1980s. He twice served as US ambassador to Israel and was Special Envoy for Middle East Peace under Obama. He is Distinguished Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.

Listen to the podcast here: https://soundcloud.com/user-728173421/bearing-witness